Chirag Paswan: ‘I think every ally wants to grow on each other… I need the BJP as much as BJP needs me’

Liz Mathew: A criticism against you was that you were more like a “Delhi boy”. But in the last year, you have made efforts to be on the ground. What has been your experience?

When I look back, I think this was a blessing in disguise for whatever has happened. It was much needed, especially for someone like me. We ‘nepo’ kids don’t get opportunities to prove ourselves… The past few years were difficult, especially after my father passed away. But I opted to be a fighter, and I think I’m proving myself very well.

National President Lok Janshakti Party (RamVilas) and Member of Parliament Chirag Paswan in conversation with Deputy Political Editor Liz Mathew Abhinav Saha

My vision is Bihar first, Bihari first. My focus is on the 2025 state elections. I’ve seen my father in the Central cabinet, and him being called the mausam vaigyanik… I want to work in my state rather than the Centre

Liz Mathew: The BJP, mostly the PM, has been talking against nepotism. What is your reaction?

I can’t react to this, how can I? I’m the outcome of the same. I can’t shy away from the fact that I am Ram Vilas Paswan’s son… Eventually, it’s the people of our country who decide your fate. If they see potential in you, they’ll take you ahead, otherwise they will kick you out.

Liz Mathew: What is the reason for the BJP’s newfound love for its allies — the prime minister is inviting everyone and giving them heartfelt messages?

I think this is how a coalition works. During elections, allies need to work together because you’re actually going out on the field, interacting with the masses, and telling them what you have done in the last four-and-a-half years. This time, there was an added reason, because they were completing 29 years of the NDA alliance. That was the reason to celebrate.

Aakash Joshi: How do you see your role as an ally in the government?

If the definition of a role is induction into a ministry or to get a portfolio, then I’m not aiming towards that. My vision is Bihar first, Bihari first. My focus is on the 2025 state elections. I’ve seen my father in the (Central) cabinet, and him being called the ‘mausam vaigyanik’ (weathervane), and part of every possible alliance. So, I want to continue working in my state rather than take any responsibility at the Central level.

Aakash Joshi: Non-BJP parties think that the BJP grows at the expense of its allies in states. What do you think?

I think every partner (in an alliance) tends to and would want to grow on each other. It’s everyone contributing their bit. I need the BJP as much as BJP needs me. And that goes for all the allies. It’s (about) growing together mutually, that should be the target.

Nishant Shekhar: What is your vision for Bihar?

My vision is Bihar first, Bihari first. For me, the biggest concern is the brain drain in my state. This migration needs to stop. How will it stop? It will stop only when we have infrastructural development. We see other states doing these investors’ summits. When was the last time my chief minister had one?… Industrialisation is important. My state is an agro-pro state. Our farmers produce so many varieties of fruits and grains but we don’t have processing units. In Hajipur, we have bananas. These bananas go down South, and are made into banana chips that are so famous, they’re pretty expensive, too. But my farmer does not benefit from that. My kids go to Kota in Rajasthan for their education. There, padhne wala Bihari (students are Bihari), padhane wala Bihari  (teachers are Bihari), and some of the owners of the institutions are Bihari but facilities are Rajasthani. So, why can’t we have a similar set-up in Patna, Bhagalpur, and Muzaffarpur? Why can’t these cities be turned into educational hubs? Every year, there are floods. What is the permanent solution? Nobody talks about it. There’s an in-depth study that we did, and we can provide almost every solution that my state faces.

National President Lok Janshakti Party (RamVilas) and Member of Parliament Chirag Paswan in conversation with Deputy Political Editor Liz Mathew. Abhinav Saha

In Hajipur, Bihar, we have bananas. These bananas go down South, and are made into banana chips that are so famous; they’re pretty expensive, too. But my farmer does not benefit from that… we don’t have processing units

Harikishan Sharma: How do you see the future of LJP? Will the two factions be separate before 2024 or united?

Honestly, I have no idea. This is not my priority. It really doesn’t matter, what my uncle’s side is thinking and doing. As an ally to the NDA now, I’m just focusing on my part.

Manoj CG: Your father was part of the United Front government, with the NDA under Atal Bihari Vajpayee, then the UPA under Manmohan Singh, and then again part of the Modi government. So, if the Opposition parties come to power in 2024, what is the guarantee that you’ll remain with the NDA?

The guarantee comes from my father. He never opted for an alliance just because that party is coming into power. It was never a post-poll alliance, it was always pre-poll. I’ll take it as good fortune that wherever he used to go, the government would be formed. I would want some of his luck to rub off on me, too, so that whichever side I’m on, the government should be formed.

Jatin Anand: How do you view UPA’s new avatar, with parties like the Congress and the AAP leading from the front?

First of all, I don’t agree with the name they’ve given this new alliance of the opposition — INDIA. You can’t use my country’s name for your political benefits. Also, I don’t know what their vision is. The only thing I hear is them talking against my prime minister. So, it looks like you’re just fighting one person. You’re not fighting unemployment or price rise. That one issue can’t be the fact why anyone should support you. On stage, you see more than a dozen prime ministerial candidates, and the in-fighting doesn’t show this alliance in a very comfortable zone… I really don’t think that it’s going to sustain for long.

Neerja Chowdhury: Has the Prime Minister indicated to you the role he sees you playing?

I’ll not be able to give you the exact details because these were closed-room talks and this is not the right time. My alliance is with the BJP, which has alliances with many others also. So unless we come on a common platform, it would be wrong to disclose talks that I had with the HM or the PM… Yes, it was (humiliating) the way BJP behaved with me, my stuff was thrown out of the house (March 2022), but this is not my personal fight. I’m fighting for my state, for the nation and for the people who believe in me. Had it been my personal fight, I think 2020 was the best time… They were offering me 15 seats, all I needed to do was to surrender to the wrong policies of my chief minister. If I would have done that, I would have been in the Centre, and there wouldn’t have been any split in the family or party… But, I have bigger ambitions.

Chirag Paswan, leader of the Lok Janshakti Party (Ram Vilas, LJP-RV), has had a roller-coaster ride in politics. After persuading his father, late Bihar veteran and former union minister Ram Vilas Paswan, to join hands with the BJP, Chirag saw some setbacks, but he has been steadfast with his support to Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

We ‘nepo’ kids don’t get opportunities to prove ourselves… The past few years were difficult, especially after my father passed away. But I opted to be a fighter, and I think I’m proving myself very well

Kaushik Das Gupta:  What’s your vision for education in Bihar?

Isn’t this an irony, I mean, my state gives so many teachers and lecturers to various universities in our country, but, in my own state, they have taken away the domicile thing. Is my state only left to be a manufacturer of labourers? My education minister says that people who apply to these posts are not qualified. But, why are they not qualified enough? It was your government which has been in power for at least 18 years. In this time, a student who is in Class I or II can be eligible for this post. Why didn’t you train these students? Now, all of a sudden, my CM wants to be a national leader, and wants to show that he has jobs for 1.5- 2 lakh people from across the country in the state, whereas the people from here are migrating to other states for jobs… Education, I believe is very important. The only reason why my state couldn’t develop in these past 75 years even after Independence was the lack of education. Due to this, caste politics has dominated my state. And it suits most of the political parties, to not provide good education, because if people become educated, then they’ll start asking about their rights…

Divya A: You spoke about inflation and unemployment. Would you be raising these issues at the NDA meetings in future?

Actually, I have. There are three concerns that I have raised repeatedly, even in Parliament. I strongly demand a youth commission in our country, where all the problems, be it unemployment, education or how to get into singing, dancing, acting and sports, are discussed. I’ve also been vocal about the Women’s Reservation Bill in NDA meetings and in Parliament. And thirdly, and most importantly, I think it’s time to have the Indian judicial service also in place. If you can have IAS/IPS officers coming through competition, the judiciary, one of the pillars of our democracy, needs to have representation from the weaker section of society, as well. Now they have the Collegium. The judges in our country should also be coming through competition, by giving exams.

Nishant Shekhar:  How are you going to convince Muslims to vote for the NDA in 2025?

I really don’t think I need to convince them. They easily associate with me because they know how my father fought for their rights and issues. It’s been projected that Muslims are not going to vote for the BJP and that the BJP is anti-Muslim. But, these days, young Muslims want a bridge between them and the Central government, and they also want to be associated with the mainstream. So, I personally don’t see a difficulty.

Liz Mathew: But, there are issues like cow slaughter. Even Uniform Civil Code (UCC), to an extent, is being viewed as an anti-minority stand. So, how will you take it up with the BJP?

During National Register of Citizens (NRC) debates, I gave a speech in Parliament. We met the Prime Minister and the Home Minister, and had sorted it out very clearly — if there’s any lack of documentation what are the repercussions? About UCC, more than getting into the Muslim part, first, we need to tackle the Hindus also coming under it. There are different practices in different regions of our country. See, the beauty of our country is the diversity, right? Everyone has the opportunity to grow, with their own culture, beliefs and practices. The Hindu-Muslim (angle) is just for vote bank politics…

Liz Mathew: So, you think there should be a Uniform Civil Code?

No. I want to read the draft first. I don’t know what this UCC is all about, so until and unless the law commission doesn’t come out with their first draft, nobody knows. And no one should be commenting on it.

Arun Sengupta: How do you balance the need for industrialisation and development in Bihar with the dangers that climate change poses?

I’ll not call it a danger, rather, it can be an opportunity to have a variety of options for our state. There can be a number of viable projects, you just need to put your thoughts to it. But the problem is that it is not a priority. All we talk about in my state is dalit-mahadalit, Luv-Kush, Kohri-Kurmi, agla-pichla, mahila-purush… Nobody’s talking about issues that need to be addressed.

Jatin Anand: How do you view prohibition as a policy?

Well, it was a wonderful policy. I supported my chief minister even when I was not in alliance with them. But then, the problem is that you don’t see this prohibition at the ground level… Liquor is readily available, you can get it home delivered now… You need to address the basic problems coming out of this policy. You need to know that there are alcoholics. What has my state done for their rehabilitation? There are no rehab centres, there are no medical facilities. And then these smugglers — young kids — put bottles into bags… On the border, you’ll see this trafficking happening so openly… So, (the policy) has done more harm, actually.

Jatin Anand: Should it be rolled back or reviewed?

I don’t know whether it should be rolled back or not, but a thorough discussion and a review is required… And now in the whole process, there is a bigger problem that a strong community — Pasis — in my state is facing. They sell tari, it’s natural juice. It’s a praakrutik padarth… Now something which is natural, how can you relate it to alcohol? And these people are put behind bars for selling tari… These problems are not addressed, they are not even acknowledged. So yes, there are a lot of loopholes in this policy… There should be a review and everybody called in for suggestions. Or else, with where it’s going, a parallel economy is being built. There are smugglers and big dealers who are manufacturing liquor. Why is the zehreeli sharaab thing happening? Because they are illegally manufacturing it.

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Aakash Joshi: You said that the NDA ideology is what you’re behind. What is the NDA ideology and how is it different from the BJP’s ideology?

Nation first is the ideology that we NDA allies are behind. There’s no compromise, whether it is national security, national development or anything that’s connected to our country and people… I don’t know about BJP’s but as an NDA alliance, nation first is the policy.