Manraj Grewal Sharma: It has been a year of the AAP government in Punjab. How do you view its performance?

We didn’t inherit a golden state. Everything was in a shambles — be it a fragile law and order situation, a bankrupt economy, defunct welfare schemes, poor infrastructure, schools and hospitals. In the past year, the Bhagwant Mann government has done some remarkable work. From starting 117 schools of excellence, to getting an adequate number of trained teachers and redoing the entire school infrastructure similar to what we had done in Delhi, we have kickstarted an education drive. In healthcare, we are strengthening the primary health care structure with more than 500 mohalla clinics. In terms of finances, Punjab had a debt of roughly Rs 3.75 lakh crore. But our excise revenue this financial year has increased by about 40 per cent. Our GST has increased by roughly 17 per cent and our income from property sale and registration has gone up by 78 per cent. This is unprecedented growth in the revenue stream of the government. So finances are being taken care of, revenue leakages are being plugged, compliance is being ensured. And all this has happened without any increment in the rate of taxes or any additional levies. As regards law and order, we have ended gun culture, busted 80 modules and cracked down on pro-Khalistani sympathisers. The government is developing low cost housing, townships, redoing cities, putting up sewage and water treatment plants. We’ve provided 300 units of free electricity. Anybody would tell you that they had not seen any government in the last four decades of the post-militancy era perform so much in their first year.

Manraj Grewal Sharma: There was apprehension that AAP is inexperienced for a volatile state like Punjab. Aren’t the attack on the intelligence HQ, the Moosewalla killing and now Amritpal Singh worrying for law and order?

Being a border state, Punjab has been critical for Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) which wants to destabilise it and Jammu and Kashmir for its ulterior motives. Amritpal is a factory-made product commissioned to tinker with the peace and harmony of the state. But we have  the right political will to counter them.

AAP leader Raghav Chadha during Idea Exchange at Indian Express Noida office on, Monday.

I have been fortunate enough to have worked with Punjab CM Bhagwant Mann for the longest time. I am being accused wrongly by the Opposition. I am not the super CM. I’m just the super brother of the super CM, that’s all

Manraj Grewal Sharma: There has been speculation that the BJP may want to destabilise the state government. How would you describe your relationship with the Centre?

Under the current BJP regime at the Centre, federalism has been thrown out of the window. We are struggling to get our Rural Development Fund of Rs 3,000-odd crore, which is our right. When it comes to national security, we work closely with the Centre. Politics should take a backseat. We have been receiving some support on this.

Manraj Grewal Sharma: What about drugs, the bane for a long time?

Solving the drug menace is a multi-tier activity. When you curtail supply and when you nab the dealers, you also have to give a parallel healthcare support system to the addicts and help rehabilitate them. So, the government is working on both fronts. As you have seen that the government of Punjab petitioned the High Court on the previous sealed reports submitted by the SIT (Special Investigation Team). These sealed envelopes were never opened by successive governments for fear of the big fish tumbling out. Give us some more time.

Manraj Grewal Sharma: Moosewalla’s parents complain the killer is still at large…

There is complete political will to get him. The Punjab Chief Minister himself comes from the artist fraternity and feels the pain of loss. In fact, the Punjab government has acted against those who didn’t surrender and counter-fired at the police, who were the principal attackers. We are in contact with the Central government, foreign law enforcement agencies, Interpol. Forget administration, we’re also his fans.

When we go to a foreign country, we represent the country. But then let’s not make a political leader’s questions about the conduct of the ruling party the same as questioning India’s credentials overseas

Sourav Roy Barman: Ever since Bhagwant Mann took over as CM, there has been a perception that he is not really the man in charge, that AAP in Delhi is trying to impose you on Punjab.

Look, I have been fortunate enough to work with Bhagwant Mann for the longest time. I was his first friend and have assisted him in his first tenure as an MP since 2014, when I was assigned the responsibility of being the secretary of the parliamentary group of our four MPs. I’ve had a working and personal relationship with him all these years. I am being accused wrongly by the Opposition. I am not the super CM. I’m just the super brother of the super CM, that’s all.

Quite frankly, there is a tried and tested model of governance in Delhi, which many states are learning from. The Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M K Stalin inspected schools in Delhi. If other state governments can borrow a leaf from our book, why can’t our own state government? There is a fantastic working relationship between the Punjab government and the Delhi government of Arvind Kejriwal.  The two states signed a knowledge-sharing agreement to learn from the best practices of each other.

Jatin Anand: It’s quite clear that Lawrence Bishnoi was behind the Moosewalla killing. Reports say he was at Bathinda jail but the AAP denied it.

Allegedly he was there in Bathinda jail when these interviews were done but within a 100-metre radius around the jail, there is no network because jammers have been installed. So there cannot be a video call or an internet-based conversation or a VoIP call that can take place. The Punjab Police has already issued a clarification. We are given to understand it could be Rajasthan because he was there for a while.

Mallica Joshi: The excise policy saw revenue going up. What went wrong in Delhi that went right in Punjab?

In Delhi, before the first financial year of this policy could be completed, active efforts were made by the Lieutenant Governor (LG) and the BJP-run MCD to stall its implementation. Shops were not permitted to be opened, stakeholders involved were denied permissions. Much before we could come out with the results of the increase in revenue, we saw cases being lodged and people being investigated for some alleged scam that happens to be only present in the minds of BJP leaders. Punjab is a full state, there was no interference from any stakeholder and a proper implementation of the policy took place. The policy wasn’t flawed, the BJP’s intent was. They could interfere in Delhi because it is not a full state; the Lieutenant Governor, the MCD and other stakeholders are involved.

AAP leader Raghav Chadha during Idea Exchange at Indian Express Noida office on, Monday.

The BJP’s objective is not to arrest just Manish Sisodia or Satyendar Jain or Raghav Chadha. The idea is to destroy AAP and its leader Arvind Kejriwal. The idea is to completely eliminate the AAP, the idea of the AAP

Mallica Joshi: Why did AAP not fight back, why did it withdraw the policy?

This is a classic misunderstanding. It was never withdrawn by the political executive. Every year, the excise policy of every state government is presented afresh when the budget is presented. When it came to renewing this policy, the LG stalled it, saying we had to revert to the old system. The political executive did not withdraw it.

Ritu Sarin: Do you think AAP’s work allocation is skewered? Considering that former Deputy CM Manish Sisodia had 18 portfolios and is out of action, how is AAP dealing with the fallout?

Work distribution and allocation of portfolios as per the Constitution are the responsibility of the Chief Minister. However, as a spectator, the size of the Delhi Cabinet is 10 per cent of the overall strength of the Delhi Legislative Assembly. It is just seven people, including the Chief Minister. But portfolios are many. So even if you were to equally divide them among these people, everyone would end up holding more than a dozen.  We have to increase the size and number of the constituencies, amend the Constitution, make 20 per cent of the MLAs as ministers. Quite frankly, it’s the prerogative of the Chief Minister.

Jatin Anand: What is the impact of Mr Sisodia’s arrest on the party? Is it creating a second tier of leadership?

We have maintained from day one that the BJP’s objective is not to arrest just Manish Sisodia or Satyendar Jain or Raghav Chadha. The idea is to destroy AAP and its leader Arvind Kejriwal. The objective is not one alleged excise irregularity, the idea is to completely eliminate the AAP, the idea of the AAP. They perhaps think we’re the only challengers to the BJP. I have been saying this for a very long time, pre-Punjab and post-Punjab, that if there is one man that can challenge the might of the BJP and Prime Minister Narendra Modi, it is Arvind Kejriwal. BJP leaders fear only AAP and Kejriwal.  The only challenge they see at the pan-India level is Kejriwal because AAP has certain ingredients that other political parties lack. In Gujarat, where I was co-campaign in-charge, I came to know that the BJP’s national leadership had given a message to its people and cadres not to worry about the Congress, even if it won three to six seats more than what they got last time. But they were told to eliminate AAP.

However, we have maintained that if you arrest one Sisodia, hundreds of Sisodias will come up. He is the name of an institution that has redefined Indian politics and school education. And by putting him behind bars, you can’t kill the institutional idea of him. He’ll be out soon.

We’ve seen the blatant misuse of Central agencies over the last eight years. The Enforcement Directorate (ED) has had only 23 convictions in the last eight years although it registered 3,550 new cases. This translates to a conviction rate of less than 0.05 per cent. With the pre-trial arrest being the only agenda of the ED, it is trying to eliminate the Opposition in general, and the AAP in particular, from Indian politics.

AAP doesn’t think about filling spaces. We function as a family, we work together, live together, eat together, govern together. And the void that Mr Sisodia has left will be filled the moment he’s back in action. We have full faith in the judiciary. You will see the streetfighter he is once he is out.

Ritika Chopra: AAP made a strong pitch for the Delhi model of education before the Punjab elections but within a few months of AAP assuming power, two surveys on educational outcomes showed that Punjab had topped one nationally and did better than Delhi in the other. What explains this?

I’m not privy to the exact numbers and the metrics used. Having gone to villages over the last two-and-a-half years, the primary education is in a shambles. There are no schools. Even if school buildings exist, neither students nor teachers show up.

Rahul Sabharwal:  Amid the debate around PM Narendra Modi’s academic qualifications, the AAP is pushing a “degree dikhaao” campaign by all politicians. Will people buy into this?

A minimum educational qualification is mandated by the Election Commission. As a people’s party, we’re only advancing what people have been asking for a while.

Shahid Pervez: AAP was born out of a movement against corruption. Yet the Lokpal has not been able to  take action yet. Why is AAP not taking  this up?

We no longer have the Anti-Corruption branch (ACB) with us unlike the first 49 days of our first term in 2013. The Sheila Dikshit-led Congress government had it for 15 years and prior to that, all chief ministers of Delhi had it. When we got into office in 2015, two key elements of administration were snatched from us. One was the services, which meant we couldn’t have a say in bureaucrats’ transfers and postings. The second was the ACB. Both these mechanisms now come under the jurisdiction of the LG. The Supreme Court has reserved its judgment on which office should have a say over these departments and we hope to have clarity in one month. With the full administration in Punjab, there’s a complete crackdown on corruption irrespective of the offender’s political colour or bureaucratic might. Chargesheets have been filed and people have been convicted.

It is the Central government’s resolve to fight corruption that is being questioned. People are asking how, out of the total number of cases registered by the CBI, 95 per cent are against Opposition parties. The Prevention of Money Laundering Act (PMLA) of 2022 has been amended in such a manner that you can keep a person in jail for months under the garb of an investigation. Between 2014 and 2019, there has been a 1,000 per cent rise in the number of cases registered under this Act.

Aditi Ray: Why does the education criteria not apply to Bhagwant Mann?

It’s not about comparing one individual’s qualifications with another. The question before us is should the elected representative have a bare minimum education or not? Why is the BJP so scared? In fact, the LG recently made an obnoxious remark. He said a degree is only the receipt of the fee that you pay at a college. Is he belittling the entire education system of India?

Mallica Joshi: How are you going to run your campaign for 2024?

AAP’s individual strategy is not important, what is important is the collective strategy of the people of India to defeat the BJP.  If you rewind to 1977,  everyone got together — the socialists, communists, Jan Sangh and the people of India — under a strategy of pitting one candidate against the one Congress candidate and they ended up defeating the mighty Indira Gandhi. Something similar is required in 2024 to defeat the mighty BJP and Prime Minister Modi.  Unemployment is at a 45-year high, inflation at a 30-year high.  The average debt of a farmer has gone up by 53 per cent. More than 30 farmers commit suicide every day. The BJP polled about 31 per cent in 2014 and 39  per cent in 2019 as its overall vote share. That means more than 60 per cent of the population is voting against the BJP. The Opposition and people need to think about fragmentation of this vote.

Sourav Roy Barman: Will Kejriwal be an acceptable face against Modi?

As somebody who considers Kejriwal as his mentor, leader, friend, philosopher and guide, I would certainly say that my leader is the only one who can take on the might of the BJP and PM Modi. A new brand, vocabulary and a new idea of politics is  required to challenge the BJP. If people like the alternative, they will vote.

Mallica Joshi: The AAP had put all eggs in one basket for the Gujarat elections. Are you disappointed with your showing?

Not at all. It’s been a fantastic debut. A political party in its first outing in a state, where the BJP is considered invincible, wins five seats and gets 13 per cent of the vote. It becomes a national party. It’s a huge achievement. If you want to juxtapose this with 2017, you can draw a parallel with Punjab that year and Gujarat in 2022. A few years on, you should see AAP  in Gujarat.

Sourav Roy Barman: Do you think Rahul Gandhi’s remarks about Indian democracy on foreign soil were wrong?

As somebody who’s been on foreign soil and been asked about domestic politics, I have maintained that we should not rake up domestic politics. When we go to a foreign country, we don’t go there as BJP or AAP or Congress leaders, we represent the country. Having said that, let’s not make a political leader’s questions about the conduct of the ruling party the same as questioning India’s credentials overseas.

Jatin Anand: There’s talk about the BJP trying to bring in a new National Judicial Appointments Commission…

The existing collegium system has been upheld by the Supreme Court from 1992. Any attempt to tinker with the independence of the judiciary is per se unconstitutional. When names are sent by the collegium, they keep sitting on it and bargain with the judges. Then they will spoil the internal evaluation status of names suggested; they will manufacture reports and make a case to convince everybody the person is unfit to be a judge. Every right-thinking individual needs to oppose this.

Harikishan Sharma: Why has AAP  remained silent on minorities?

When communal violence happened in Delhi, ministers, MLAs and the CM were on the streets. We summoned the public policy head of Facebook. We took each of the stakeholders to task to ensure that peace and harmony are not tinkered with. We took a stand against bulldozer politics.

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Why Raghav Chadha

Raghav Chadha is among the dynamic young leaders of the Aam Aadmi Party (AAP), who has seen it grow both in Delhi and Punjab. His toughest challenge was to build the party organisation ground up in the Majha belt of Punjab, once the hotbed of militancy. AAP posted an overwhelming win in Punjab despite the strong footprint of both the Congress and Akali Dal. It was because of this success in Punjab that Chadha was sent to Gujarat as the co-campaign in-charge for the Assembly elections there. AAP may have got five seats but notched up a vote share of 13 per cent. Apart from manning election backrooms, Chadha has emerged as an articulate party spokesperson.