Keshav Prasad Maurya at Idea Exchange: ‘We are not a hard state. We are tough only with criminals. We want good governance’

We are deepening our contact with people and ensuring prompt service delivery, having started a Gram Chaupal where we are trying to dispose of all complaints at the local level only. So far, we have held such chaupals in over 17,000 villages and disposed of over 1.22 lakh complaints.

Shyamlal Yadav: But in the recently-held urban local body elections —considering that BJP has always done well in the cities — you have lost 80 per cent of Nagar Panchayat member seats, 65 per cent of Nagar Panchayat Adhyaksh seats, 75 per cent of Nagar Palika Parishad member seats and 55 per cent of Nagar Palika Parishad Adhyaksh seats.

Your numbers are wrong. We won 89 of the 199 Nagar Palika seats and with allies, that figure is now 91 seats. But if you look at other seats, you need to compare the tally with how many seats the Opposition, namely the Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP), the Samajwadi Party (SP) and the Congress won. Generally, Nagar Palika and Nagar Panchayat elections are not fought on the basis of parties but issues. But the political atmosphere is such today that we are at a number one position in UP.

Though we are accused of ‘bulldozer politics’, it’s not like we’ve cleared massive plots of land. Many complaints are being made, we investigate and in cases of wrong-doing, give back the poor their dues and what they deserve

Shyamlal Yadav: Isn’t gangster-politician Atiq Ahmed’s murder a challenge for the government?

Atiq and his brother Ashraf were big criminals. The government had ensured their cases were put in fast-track courts and they were very close to capital punishment. From the government’s and my personal point of view, the killing should not have happened. A Special Investigation Team (SIT) is looking into the incident and all the murderers have been arrested. They will also be subjected to a narco-analysis test to get to the truth and be given a quick and stern punishment.

Shyamlal Yadav: You have popularised your initiative to get Rs 35 lakh crore investment into UP. Have you been able to attract investment to other places in UP than just Noida?

Investment proposals have come in for the districts of Bundelkhand, Purvanchal and Rohilkhand where nobody showed any interest earlier. Also this time, the investors are not leaving the projects midway as various departments have formed new policies to facilitate them. Our policies are better than other states because we are employing the Gujarat or the Modi model.

From the government’s and my point of view, Atiq’s killing should not have happened. The SIT is looking into the incident and the murderers have been arrested. There will be a narco-analysis test and there will be a quick and stern punishment

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P Vaidyanathan Iyer: Employment is a challenge as the Government can’t give a lot of jobs. Of course, they are receiving several facilities from the government but is joblessness causing societal issues?

No government can give jobs to everybody. But we are providing opportunities because of which the state’s youth are doing well. There is no dearth of opportunities here. The results of Aatmanirbhar Bharat and the relief package announced post-Covid have begun to be visible on the ground. Small businesses can choose from the Pradhan Mantri Mudra Yojana (PMMY) or Startup India initiative. Even smaller businesses can choose the PM Svanidhi Yojana. For example, if someone goes to a bank with an Aadhaar card, seeking a loan for a vegetable stall, they will get it without any guarantee. Talented youth can opt for start-ups. They should venture into new areas. The government is ready to train them and provide them with requisite infrastructure. UP is now an education hub with several reputed institutions like IIT and NIT present. We want to build one university in each commissionerate. The government has everything for every stratum. This is the advantage of having a double-engine government. We are witnessing several admissions today because there is an encouraging atmosphere.

My father was a small farmer and we lived in a kachcha house. We aspired to save every penny to build a small room for relatives and guests to sit in. This was a desire of not just my family but every poor family. More than four crore houses have been provided under the Pradhan Mantri Awas Yojana, and in UP itself we have provided 60 lakh houses under this scheme. We also offer some foundational support by way of a toilet, gas connection and a power supply under the Awas Yojana. UP is number one in implementing Har Ghar Nal Yojana. When I was young, my father fell sick and we had no money to treat him. So we mortgaged our one-acre land for Rs 5,000 to a neighbouring family to get money for his treatment. After he recovered, we repaid our mortgage and got back our land. Today, poor families are given an Ayushman Bharat card with a Rs 5 lakh health cover.

Uttar Pradesh Deputy Chief Minister Keshav Prasad Maurya during the Idea Exchange at The Indian Express

Vandita Mishra: Is there a limit to a hard state in a democracy? Section 144 is imposed at many places, and for long periods, in UP. There are frequent encounters and the use of bulldozers. Is their any conversation within your government on the need to rework policy and image?

Replace the word hard state with good governance. We are tough only with criminals. The land mafia has captured several acres in rural areas by terrorising the poor and claiming they are the henchmen of the SP, ministers of the BSP or leaders of the Congress. Being a minister doesn’t mean you can capture someone’s land. If someone is found guilty after investigations and is subjected to legal proceedings, then you cannot use the term bulldozer government. Vacating illegal occupants of lands is good governance, not strictness. If you ask any common villager, they would tell you how during the rule of the SP government, they would be jailed or beaten up for accusing an SP leader of wrongdoing. This doesn’t happen today; we investigate a complaint and undertake legal proceedings. Ever since we have taken over, there hasn’t been a riot in UP. In Ayodhya, the Lord Ram Janmabhoomi dispute went on for 500 years. But after the Supreme Court’s judgment, the temple is being built peacefully.

Shyamlal Yadav: More than half of the state universities in UP have been built by former chief ministers Akhilesh Yadav, Mayawati and Hemwati Nandan Bahuguna. Seventeen of the 75 districts were carved out by Mayawati. The BJP was never known for this kind of work. It is good that you have subjected Atiq Ahmed and Mukhtar Ansari to legal proceedings but why target Azam Khan, who was about to finish building a university?

We are building universities in all 18 mandals of the state and sanctioned funds. Work has begun at many places and we are trying to complete it soon. Yadav has a problem of putting a stamp on everything, saying that he had announced it during his term. If you have built something when you were in government, then call it yours. They only got 47 seats in the Assembly elections in 2017 because you cannot escape the scrutiny of the people. Good work has happened and is still happening in our time.

I’ll put it simply: Some people who didn’t get a BJP, SP or BSP ticket may have decided to pick up the broom. That’s not AAP’s win. That’s an accidental win. AAP has no future in the state and the country

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Sandeep Dwivedi: Brij Bhushan Singh, an MP of your party, has been accused of sexual harassment. The police investigation is not progressing and the party has also not issued a statement about this.

Sportspersons are the pride of the country. A committee formed by the Sports Ministry is investigating the allegations and a police case has also been registered. It’s not appropriate for me to say who is right or wrong because the investigations are going on and the issue is of national import. I don’t think anything needs to be said. But sports is priority as under the guidance of Prime Minister Narendra Modi and UP chief minister Yogi Adityanath, we have organised a Sansad Khel Mahakumbh, which is grooming talent from rural areas.

Harikishan Sharma: The UP CM has two Deputy CMs, probably because of the large size of the state. Do you think a big state like UP requires a full-time Home Minister to look after the law and order situation?

UP’s law and order situation is much better than what it was 15 years ago due to the leadership of Yogi Adityanath. The common man is not scared, only the mafia is. You can witness Ram Rajya in UP today. The question of a full-time Home Minister is one that only the CM can look into.

Harikishan Sharma: The BJP peaked during your tenure as the state unit president. Since then, its performance has been going down. You got 10 lesser seats during the 2019 general elections. The voter turnout in the recent byelections and municipal elections was low too. In your constituency, Prayagraj, only 30 per cent turned out. Does this bother you?

I’d like to correct you. In the 2019 general elections, we got more votes than in 2014. Our aim for 2024 is to win all 80 Lok Sabha seats in UP under the leadership of Narendra Modi. In Vidhan Sabha too, our voters didn’t leave us; our voteshare increased by two per cent compared to the previous Vidhan Sabha elections. Both the BSP and Congress vote shifted to the SP. However, the low voter turnout in the civic body elections is definitely a matter of concern.

The Election Commission should also do something so that people understand it is their responsibility to vote. They consider this a right but it’s a responsibility as well. People ask for rights but don’t often stick to them and do their duty.

As we are to celebrate nine years of the BJP government on May 30, we are planning to rally our workers, visit every person on the electoral roll, do home visits and ask them to vote.

Deeptiman Tiwary: There are allegations that your method of improving law and order is selective. People say Mukhtar Ansari and Atiq Ahmed were heavily prosecuted by the UP police and the Enforcement Directorate while some politicians in Purvanchal, Jaunpur or Banaras have a free hand. What’s your response to this criticism?

No matter who the criminal is, he will be prosecuted. He has no caste or party. I read in The Indian Express that the Enforcement Directorate’s strike rate is 98 per cent. It’s not suitable to question an organisation with that success rate. The fact is that our critics want older cases of corruption to be forgiven. But with us, there’s no discrimination or bias that takes place.

Jatin Anand: The Aam Aadmi Party (AAP) says that politics in UP is changing with people now supporting the Delhi model of development. What about the AAP’s performance in the municipal election?

The BJP was, is and will be number one. The man, who pretends to be innocent, will have to answer severe accusations of corruption. Yet he says he wears a shirt, pant, keeps a broken pen in his pocket, a muffler around his neck. I’ll put it simply: Some people who didn’t get a BJP or SP or BSP ticket may have decided to pick up the broom. That’s not AAP’s win. That’s an accidental win. AAP has no future in the state and the country.

Shyamlal Yadav: Do you think a caste census should happen before the general election?

I’m not against a caste census. Those parties who want it should be fair to all their members first. The BJP should congratulate Mallikarjun Khargeji because nobody was able to become the Congress president outside the Gandhi family. Regardless of the caste question, we want every person in society to get education, representation and respect. In India, if anyone is responsible for giving respect to OBCs, it’s Narendra Modi. Did the Congress ever make any backward caste/class person the Prime Minister? They can’t because it’s not in their nature. They just want to set an election agenda.

Shyamlal Yadav: There were reports of tension between you and Yogi Adityanath in the first tenure of this government. How is it this time?

This is Opposition propaganda. We are very friendly, work together as a team and deliver good results. Even in the Nagar Palika and Nagar panchayat elections, people are voting for the party.

Shyamlal Yadav: Your defeat in the Sirathu Assembly seat was like CB Gupta’s in 1957 and that of Kamalapati Tripathi’s in 1967. What went wrong?

The party leadership doesn’t fight an election on one seat. In UP, for example, we were contesting in 403 seats. And I could give my Vidhan Sabha seat just 1.5 days. Whether you’re a minister or state leader, the voter doesn’t care. He just thinks, this is Keshav ji, he sat and drank with us, today he doesn’t have time to even ask for votes. In 1.5 days, you can’t cover a Vidhan Sabha constituency. That’s what happened.

Shyamlal Yadav: UP has become an exporter of unskilled labour due to poverty and unemployment. Your government announced a migration commission during Covid. Can’t you change the situation where people from other states come to UP for work instead?

We have the labour data on the basis of which the commission has tabulated who has what skill sets. Accordingly, we are relocating them to projects where they can get an opportunity. We have been able to empower women with over 1.2 crore of them getting jobs and livelihood. We have launched platforms for skill development. We have every kind of manpower and talent, what we need is motivation and hard work. Young people won’t idle away anymore but work 10 hours.

Alind Chauhan: The NCRB released a report in 2021 that more than 13,000 cases of violence against Dalits were filed in 2020. The three accused in the rape of a Dalit girl in Hathras have been acquitted.

Punishment or acquittal is the court’s work. Filing a chargesheet is police work. We want to ensure that no crime happens. If it does, it is not hidden. If the accused are convicted, prosecute them. If not, let them be.

Deeptiman Tiwary: Your government said it would table the report on the 1980 Moradabad riots in the Vidhan Sabha. But the riot-hit have died and legal proceedings are difficult now. What can this report achieve except reopen old wounds?

We weren’t in government at the time. If there was a report, the then government should have come out with it but they hid it. Because the majority of those killed were Hindus and belonged to Scheduled Castes, it’s our responsibility to tell the truth.

Vandita Mishra: Even Nitish Kumar pulled Bihar out from jungle raj. But he didn’t need a bulldozer, did he?

Though we are accused of “bulldozer politics”, it’s not like we’ve cleared massive plots of land. Even now, many complaints are being made, we investigate and in cases of wrong-doing, give back the poor their dues and what they deserve.

Shyamlal Yadav: As per an Indian Express investigation, senior officers and some BJP leaders bought land in Ayodhya surrounding the Ram Janmabhoomi after the Supreme Court verdict. Why is no action being taken on the report?

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The inquiry report is with the government and under consideration. If any official is found to have violated rules and bought land by misusing their authority, they will certainly face action.